Interview with a Bold Retiree (She Moved to Portugal!)

I’m so pleased — and excited! — to bring you this digital visit with a recently retired former Los Angelena who, with her husband, dreamed up a big move and new lifestyle in Portugal — and then made it happen! In the middle of a pandemic! If you haven’t read it yet, you might want to go back to this post from May 2020 wherein Carol and I chatted about her projected move, a couple of months after it had been temporarily suspended by Covid-19. 

Since then, the move happened! (Yes, I’m using up my quota of exclamations marks, but seriously, I’ve found stories of gratified hopes and dreams short on the ground this past year and a half.) I’ve been following Carol on Instagram, watching her settle into her new Portuguese home, community, and lifestyle, and — remembering how generous she was last time, I asked if she’d answer some questions to update readers here. And — caution, exclamation marks ahead — she agreed!!

And here’s our exchange, accompanied by some great photos supplied by Carol:

When I posted our earlier “interview,” back in May 2020, Covid restrictions were becoming increasingly stringent, and it had become evident that your carefully planned retirement move to Portugal from Los Angeles was going to be delayed. At that time, you were hoping you might be able to go ahead by September, but you were waiting for the consulate to re-open in San Francisco. You were also finding it more difficult – impossible? — to sell or give away the items you wouldn’t be taking with you, so that the schedule for clearing and preparing your house to sell was also delayed. All that is behind you now, and judging by your Instagram account, you’re happily settling into your new life in Cascais. Can you tell us a bit, first, about the challenges that the pandemic presented, and how you dealt with those challenges? I’m guessing that patience was one of your best tools.

Patience was indeed our friend, as was information – checking in frequently with the charities to which we planned to donate possessions to see if they had reopened, and with the visa servicing company that works with the San Francisco Consulate.  When they reopened in late September, I went online and snagged an appointment for October 29, which gave us a little over a month to get some time-dated items, like our FBI criminal background forms, issued.  I will admit that the house sorting process just kind of stopped for a few months there – the back of my SUV was filled with boxes and there was a bit of “what’s the use?” thinking while there was no place outside our home for stuff to go.

Did you ever begin to think maybe the move “just wasn’t meant to be”?

Despite my “what’s the use?” thoughts, I never had any doubt that we’d get here, even when our timeline kept getting moved back, and back, and back.  I knew a vaccine would come, and that the world would open up again, so I never lost faith.

Once things began opening up again, you seem to have moved quite quickly. What would the time-lapse video of the few months between that and your arrival in Portugal show us? House prep to For Sale sign to documentation acquisition and filing to moving truck to the Customs and Immigration gates at the airport in Portugal to turning the keys in the front door of your new home. . .

That day in late September when I snagged our visa appointments set things off!  Local charities opened at around the same time, so I was able to drop off that load of stuff in the back of my car, and fill it, again and again.  We got up at 5 am on October 29 and drove the 5.5 hours to San Francisco (yes, I do have a bit of a lead foot) with food we’d prepared so we’d only have to stop for gas and bathroom breaks.  After our appointment we drove south on the slower highway, stopping for a distanced and masked visit with long-time friends in Palo Alto before driving to Pismo Beach, where we spent a distanced and masked night with dear friends there.

Seeing friends was an important part of the process – I know that these two couples will come here at some point as they’re all travelers, but we couldn’t leave the country without one more face-to-face.

Our visas arrived on December 2 – no notice from the visa service, just the FedEx envelope on our doorstep, and that was a day of celebration and panic!  We had told the consulate (somewhat optimistically) that we would arrive into Portugal on January 15, so our visas were good for 4 months, from January 15 to May 14.  In addition, our appointments with Immigration here to obtain our residency cards were for April 20, so now we had a deadline.

More house clearing, and at the beginning of January we called the real estate agent who’d done a fabulous job selling the house down the street.  He did his walk-through, explained his marketing plan, and we signed on the dotted line.  More clearing – he wanted our kitchen counters bare for photos, and the built-ins mostly empty of the art pottery we’ve collected over the years.  So more things got packed up and stowed in the garage for their eventual shipment.  The photos were scheduled for a Monday, so I spent the weekend prior filling all our pots with colorful spring blossoms to give the patios and driveway a welcoming look.

Our house went on the market on February 4, we had 35 showings over that weekend, by Monday we had 16 offers, and we were in escrow by Tuesday.  The closing took a bit longer than we’d hoped – our city in Los Angeles County requires a pre-sale inspection and report from the building department (I guess to make sure we hadn’t snuck a second story on or something) and due to COVID that was massively delayed.  We were finally able to close on March 30, which was the day the shippers came and took all our belongings away.

With the uncertainty of the closing date, we’d booked our flight for April 13, so we had two weeks at a hotel in Manhattan Beach.  It was a lovely respite (pool!) and friends came and visited or we met for lunch or dinner.

Finally, we took our Lufthansa flight through Frankfurt to Lisbon (chosen because they could accommodate our two cats all the way through).  We didn’t sleep well on the plane, so don’t have much memory of Frankfurt, but we had an angel of an escort wrangling us, our 7 bags, and the cats, in Lisbon.  He handed us off to our driver with a thankfully large van, and we headed to our new apartment in São João do Estoril, where we met our landlady, Joanna.  She gave us a quick walk-through, realized we were exhausted, and said she’d come back in two days for a proper run-through.

We crashed, and the next morning looked at each other in wonder.  “Honey, we’re in Portugal!”  Something we still say, almost daily.

Highlights? Funny moments or particularly frustrating ones or those moments when the universe seemed to be confirming you were following exactly the right path . . .

The funniest (in hindsight) moment was at LAX, as we checked the bags and cats in for the flight.  Lufthansa allowed us to fly both boys in one kennel, which was not only less expensive, but probably less traumatic for them.  We thought we were through with the check-in, but the gate agent said, “And now you take the cats over to TSA so they can check the carrier.  This turned out to be an alcove open to the rest of the international terminal, and I had to take the cats out of the kennel!  Lex is a very happy cat and didn’t mind coming out and cuddling with my husband, but Max is more high-strung, and I had to get down on the floor and drag him out.  I realized immediately I wasn’t going to be able to lift his 21 squirmy pounds up without risking him taking flight through the airport, so I pinned him to the terrazzo floor and begged the TSA agent to be quick.  Fortunately, he was.  This part of the process had never come up in all the cat-shipping discussions – had I known I would have gotten them harnesses, which would have made holding on to them much easier.

You left behind a house you’d lived in for 30 years, and before you did that, you’d culled many of your belongings – and you eschewed the possibility of temporary storage preferring to ask yourself the question, “Is it Portugal-worthy?” In our last conversation, we talked about that balance between the freedom we gain and the sense of loss we experience in such a dramatic downsizing. I know that the shipping containers with everything you decided to keep just arrived at your new home last week and you’ve been unpacking. I wonder what misgivings you might have had in the interim, if any, and what relief (or exasperation – why did we end up keeping this?!) you felt being reunited.

When I unpacked my shoes, I stared at a really darling pair of John Fluevog high-heeled Mary Jane pumps and thought, “Why did I bring those?”  I mean, they’re cute, but I honestly don’t know when I’m going to wear them!  Definitely “car to bar” shoes, rather than something I’ll be wearing walking around.  We also discovered that ovens are much smaller here, so our roasting pan and several of our cookie sheets don’t fit (and we had a relatively small oven in CA, compared to many friends).  I do wish we’d checked those dimensions before we packed.  And I’m still sorting out where we’ll be displaying some of our art pottery – I’d never really thought about all the built-ins and other spaces in LA that we just don’t have here.

More than house and belongings, you wrote last time that leaving friends behind was the most painful aspect of the move, but that your new home had room to accommodate guests and you expected visitors. We’re all still trying to figure out how Covid-19 (and the variants thereof) will affect willingness and ability to travel internationally, but it seems to me that while you wait to see when your old friends can come to visit, you’ve already begun making friends where you are. True? And how are you managing that? And – since new friends are silver, but the old ones are gold, as the saying goes – are you finding that technology is pretty good at keeping you connected with your LA friends or is that 8-hour time difference tough to work around?

That part has actually been going well, at both ends!  We have regular Zoom calls with the Palo Alto and Pismo couples mentioned previously, and my bff and I speak weekly, although that will change when she and her husband move here next month!  The 8-hour difference means that a lunchtime call for them is post-dinner for us, so the timing is good.  My husband’s brother lives in Thailand (7 hours ahead of us) so that’s changed their timing, and his sister is on PEI (4 hours behind, flipped from being 4 hours ahead) so that’s easy too. On the other hand, it’s complicated our calls with our friends in New Zealand – 12 hours means that one end or the other probably shouldn’t be having that glass of wine!

We’ve been lucky to fall in with a fun extended group of expats here – it started when we went to a meet-up for a Facebook-based group of locals, and met a woman who grew up in San Diego at the same time I did.  We didn’t live in the same neighborhood, but that common timeline was enough to get us to having lunch together, and then I joined a walking group she participates in.  A group of really fascinating women with a variety of experiences and interests, and in some cases, partners and/or family, so we’re developing some lovely friendships.  I feel fortunate that this happened so quickly, and that they’ve all been so welcoming to both of us.

Your Instagram posts provided a glimpse into your new home (rented 3-bedroom apartment, I believe), and I was smitten by those gorgeous black and white floor tiles.  Especially now that your furniture has been unpacked, are you enjoying your new space? Can you see yourselves there for at least the next year or two, or might there be another change or two ahead?

It is a lovely space, with lots of light and, as you say, those gorgeous tiles, and is the entire bottom floor of an 1890s seaside home.  Our furniture looks great against the tiles, as do our rugs, so we’re happy with that.  The downside is that we don’t have enough storage space.  There’s no garage or ancillary storage area, so we’ve bought some furniture that doubles as storage, but we’re either going to have to get rid of more stuff (which we will do – I know there are files that I just packed because I didn’t have time to go through them, and I definitely wasn’t selective enough with the Christmas decorations) or move at some point.  But I think we’re here for at least the next year or two (we are halfway through a three-year lease), because the very thought of packing things up again gives me the horrors.  We still haven’t decided whether we will continue to rent or to buy – that will depend on if the perfect place shows up.

And outside your front door? The neighbourhood and the community is turning out to be what you’d hoped for and more? From your Instagram I get the impression of proximity to very attractive seaside walks and interesting architecture. In that earlier exchange, you wrote that you wouldn’t have a car in São João, but would be able to walk to shops and restaurants. Is that working out as expected?  Are you beginning to be recognized when you stop in for coffee or pick up a few fillets at the fishmonger? Any photos you’d like to share? Or perhaps draw us a word picture?

We are a 90-second walk from one end of the Paradão, a 3-kilometer seaside boardwalk with several distinct beaches, restaurants, and lovely views.  We’re close to a very good bakery that we try to avoid, and have two smaller markets within walking distance for quicker shopping trips.  One of them is family owned and has really great produce, so they’re definitely getting to know me there.  We have several good restaurants within a kilometer – anything more that that we’ll Uber if we’re both going, as my husband has some back problems and long walks are currently an issue for him.  The lifestyle here does encourage walking, so his range is improving.

I remember you mentioned that you’d probably find yourself missing Mexican food, so accessible in Los Angeles but probably not in Portugal. But I know you are adaptable and adventuresome and that earlier visits to Portugal alerted you to the delights of its cuisine. Current favourites? Surprise discoveries? New pantry staples?

Mexican food is the new thing here – three restaurants have opened in the last year, and there are several more in the surrounding towns.  I’ve been to two, and am hitting the third this week, and looking forward to it.  Current favorite:  dourada, or golden bream.  It’s a thicker white fish, it stays moist while it’s being cooked, and it is just delicious grilled.  I haven’t had a bad piece yet, whether it’s at a small neighborhood place or at one of the fancier restaurants in the area.  Grilled sardines (seasonal) are also amazing – nothing liked the canned variety.  Portuguese olive oils are a pantry staple – the olive industry here is large and there are some delicious choices available.  As for surprises, it’s how very good the fresh produce is here – I’m talking strawberries that rival any that I’ve had from the best growers in California, and on a hike last week I picked up baby carrots that the seller grew in her garden, and since the tops were still attached, we made carrot-top pesto.  Yum!

Okay, I know there’s an abundance of questions here already, but is it too early to ask about what patterns everyday life is settling into. What does your typical day look like? Is there such a thing yet?

There is, actually.  I wake up and head out for a walk every day – usually along the Paradão and then through the historic center of Cascais and up along the Atlantic coast.  It’s a roundtrip of about 11 kilometers, and it’s always beautiful, no matter the weather.  There’s another hike that goes through a valley in the center of town and up into the hills, if I’m feeling like a challenge, or need some baby carrots.  Then I come home and have a late breakfast/early lunch of Greek yogurt (genuine, from Greece) with fresh fruit and almonds.  After that we might have errands to run, or I might just hang out and read for a couple of hours.  We’re still in the organizing/setting up stage, so I might pick a corner and tackle that.  It’s a pretty mellow life, but we’re incredibly happy here.

Most surprising difference between old and new life:

I really like not having a car.  Because our lives are more local (we don’t have to get in the car to go most places, unlike when we lived in LA) I haven’t missed the car at all. Uber is easy and generally available if we’re going farther afield, and we’ll soon be tackling public transportation – we live two blocks from the commuter rail that goes directly into Lisbon, so we’ll be doing that quite a lot, I imagine.

Most enjoyable difference:

I’ve lost 29 pounds since we got here, without a lot of effort.  I’ve struggled with my weight most of my adult life, and menopause really did a number on me.  But the exercise, and the fresh fish, and I imagine, less stress, has changed things wildly for the better.  As I unpacked, I was relieved to discover I hadn’t gotten rid of all my skinnier clothes, and it’s fun to wear some old favorites again.

Anything you’re surprised to find you miss, or miss more than you’d expected:

There are things that can be tough to find at the grocery store, like sour cream.  Quark or crème fraiche are acceptable substitutes but aren’t quite the same.  But there’s not much I currently miss about life in California – I think COVID trained us for keeping up with people long-distance, so even that hasn’t been as hard as it could be.

Finally, what about plans for the longer term.  I know you wanted to make more space in your retired life for writing, and I remember that European travel was high on your list (although that might well be on hold, with this fourth wave). As well, you intended to enrol in some Portugese language courses through University of Coimbra.  In your shoes (and some of those you’ve just gleefully greeted, as you unpacked those shipping crates!), I think I’d take at least another six months, probably a year, just observing, absorbing, enjoying, and adapting. Revelling in the new quotidian. You? Maybe we can do another one of these chats next year?!

We’re going to take a 4-week intensive Portuguese language class at a local school, starting in a couple of weeks.  That should give us a decent start, I think.  Since we’ve arrived we have learned that the Portuguese government sponsors free language classes for immigrants, so we’re going to look into that and see whether that will get us to the level we want to get to.  Travel is a bit on hold – while we’re both vaccinated, we’re taking a wait-and-see approach, although with Portugal’s vaccine rates (73.1% as of 8/30) we feel pretty safe here, and will probably embark on some more local travel fairly soon.

Yes, observing/absorbing/adapting/enjoying are our bywords at the moment.  We are definitely in the honeymoon phase, and have been able to brush off the small bureaucratic annoyances that come with living in a new place, but we do have friends who have emigrated from the US to other countries , so I know there will come a stage when the rose-colored glasses come off and the “Honey, we live in Portugal” will become more of a recognition of the reality of our new home than the cry of wonder that it is now.

I would love to chat again next year!  Hopefully my Portuguese will be better, and Ikea will have restocked Billy bookcases, both things that will make my life easier.

Thank you so much, Carol! What an enjoyable and inspiring conversation (and it’s reminding me of how much I loved Portugal when we visited it and making me wonder why it’s been so long. . . oh, those grilled sardines, so good!) I’m already looking forward to next year’s chat — let’s do that, for sure!

Meanwhile, readers, Carol has kindly agreed to respond to questions you might have  (if you don’t have a question for her, feel free to express your thanks for her huge contribution to this post). Some of you might also want to share memories of travel to Portugal or share tentative dreams (or happily realized ones) of audacious moves (and remember, “audacious” can be relative, right?).  Comments are now open: Let the conversation continue. . . .